Why does Israel not allow international journalists to enter Gaza?
Perhaps they have something to hide. I don’t know. You’d better ask them. Normally, when you don’t allow someone to get into somewhere, it’s because you don’t want people to see a certain thing. So, I wonder.
So, the Israeli government is trying to hide the truth
I wonder.
Many journalists have been killed. And one of them was our colleague; a dear friend of mine. His name was Montaser al Sawwaf
I share your grief.
In a broader context, how do you assess press freedom in Israel? And how do you view press freedom in Gaza in light of Israeli policies after October 7?
Let’s begin with the second half. There is no freedom of press in Gaza, because as you said, first of all, internationally, media cannot enter. The only ones that can enter their journalists are rarely the ones that do not cooperate with the regime, with the government, and what the others do in actuality is publish what the government wants. And I’m sure that they are not allowed to see some of the things, either.
So, what’s going on in Gaza has nothing to do with the freedom of press. Now, as far as what’s going on in Israel, I think that inside the situation is different, and to some extent, the war is wide. Very often we are talking about a situation in which the media, you know, is mobilized by the government. So, the government, especially, you know, dictatorships mobilize the media into publishing certain things and not publishing certain other things. The problem now in Israel is -and I lament it, and I think it’s disgraceful- is that the vast majority of journalists -I don’t say all of them, but the vast majority of journalists, 90% of journalists- need not be mobilized; they voluntarily mobilize themselves to support the war and government policies.
And I think this is not so in Gaza. You can say that there are not many limitations on the freedom of speech, of press, but the press itself, I mean most of it, chooses not to act freely. I think this is disgraceful, it’s unprofessional. And it will be remembered once this terrible era ends, it will be remembered that they betrayed the profession.
Last couple of questions, if my colleague doesn’t have anything to add. A lawyer at the ICJ said that this is the first genocide in history which is broadcast live. We know that many atrocities have happened throughout history. But this time, despite the constraints imposed by Israel and other limitations, almost every facet of this incident is being meticulously documented. And now in The Hague, several crucial pieces of evidence presented to the court come from my colleagues. Among them, Mustafa Alkharouf, for example, unwittingly captured an image that would later serve as critical evidence. How do you evaluate the importance of the press in this regard?
If the press is genuinely free, dedicated, and maintains a high level of professionalism without being easily manipulated, its political orientation, whether leaning towards the right or left, or being politically unaffiliated, or even adopting an Israeli-Palestinian perspective, whatever. I believe this diversity is very, very important. Unfortunately, as I mentioned earlier, this is not currently the case.
What would you say to a documentary of genocide?
I want to say two short things. First of all, as I said before, I’m very cautious about it; I do not want to say categorically that there is a genocide, as far as the legal definition is concerned, because I’m not familiar enough with the exact nuances of the legal aspects of the situation. I don’t say that there’s no genocide happening there, either; all I say is, I don’t possess enough information. And because of that, it must be investigated. The role of the press, if it is a professional and honest one, is to be part of investigative mechanisms.
I have to say that I’m not sure there is a genocide as far as the legal concept is concerned. Another thing is, you know, there is already a massacre that was documented and became influential: the Vietnam War. Why do I mention that? Because, you know, if you ask people, Americans and others, about the Korean War of 1950, most of them won’t have any idea about what was happening there. Many of them, I guess, would say that they didn’t even hear about the Korean War.
What about Israelis?
That’s an interesting question. I have to think about it. But everybody knows about the Vietnam War. Why? You know, the destruction, the death toll... Everything in Korea and in Vietnam with this difference of about 15 years was not that big. You know, in Korea, the destruction and death toll were very high as well. Why don’t people know much about what was going on in Korea, and why were there no such mass protests against the Korean War? Because it was not documented. There were no televisions or phones there. The Vietnam War was documented and televised, and that’s the main difference between the Korean War and the Vietnam War. Otherwise, they are almost, almost the same.
The reason there was a mass protest in the United States, though it took some time before beginning, you know, was to make a mass one. It was thanks to the television and the media. So, if I take this example for what’s going on in Gaza… in any other place on earth, if you do not know what’s going on, you won’t do anything to stop it. If you know what’s going on, you do something to stop it, because you realize it’s a disaster, catastrophe, something morally criminal, or you may simply suppress yourself and just ignore and say that they deserve it. That may happen too.
But I think that the situation now is a variation of the “Korea syndrome”. That means that it is not televised or documented enough. But I’m all for it. And especially in Israel, most of the Israelis who follow solely the Israeli media, do not really know what’s going on in Gaza, because the media in Israel, as I said before, voluntarily decide to join forces with the government and its policies, so they don’t show the level of destruction and death toll, the suffering etc. So, most people in Israel who do not follow foreign media don’t have any idea about what is going on there.
Do you think if they were following foreign media, would it be any different?
I think that gradually it would become different. I don’t say that it will be different right on the spot, because, as I said before, and I just intended to say now, some people may be exposed to horrific scenes from Gaza and celebrate them. Or, just be apathetic, indifferent. So that happens not only in Israel but generally. I mean, you know, humanity is wonderful, but people make a mess of everything. So, it happens in the same way everywhere.
How do you explain the staunch support coming from the US administration? And second, do you see enough of a shift in the public opinion in the United States and in Europe, especially in Germany? Hundreds of thousands of people have been taking to the streets. So, do you think the global public opinion is shifting against Israeli right-wing government policy? What is going on?
First of all, I must say that this is outrageous. The Biden administration’s behavior is outrageous. It’s not only because it allows the massacre to continue, but also because, as I said before, they don’t support Israel, but rather the government of Israel. The government of Israel is the main enemy of Israelis. So, by supporting the government of Israel, Biden’s administration actually harms the interests, the well-being and the security of Israelis and of the State of Israel. This is something which they should be ashamed of on top of what they are allowing the Government of Israel to do in Gaza. This is one thing.
Secondly, I see the demonstrations and the protests around the globe. I want to say two very important things, if I may. First, of course, generally speaking, I encourage everyone around the world to go out and demonstrate and protest against the policy of the Israeli government but that’s the second thing. I’m enlisting your help to appeal to people for something more important: don’t conflate Israel with the Israeli government. Don’t be against Israel; be against the Israeli government.
And most importantly, don’t conflate antisemitism with being antiwar and anti-occupation. Antisemitism is a form of racism. And like any other form of racism, like Islamophobia, or Arabophobia or anything else, any kind of racism, antisemitism is criminal. Fight against it. Don’t collaborate with it, be anti-occupation, anti-war for peace, but also support the Jews who are under attack. Don’t join the attackers; do the opposite.
